Rotorway ownership

[Bryan Cruze]

I was looking for some advice on pros and cons on a rotorway vs a certified aircraft like an Enstrom. Also, is mast bumping a thing in a Rotorway?

[homer bell]

Mast bump is a thing in ANY two blade system.
Enstrom RW , one is certified , one isn’t.

And flying in Alaska in a homebuilt should be done very conservatively. And you should probably put in an ELT!

[Bryan Cruze]

Thanks for the response. I agree that an ELT is a must. I think the geographic location is my biggest fear with rotorway.

[Tim Morris]

Bryan, have you ever built or owned and Experimental aircraft? Experimental certified aircraft very much reflect the care and attention of the builder. Someone who builds an aircraft to get flying as soon as possible may cut corners and not put the care and workmanship required into their aircraft. This aircraft will not be as safe as others. However, someone who builds it right and puts the time into building and maintaining it correctly will have an aircraft that is just as safe (if not more safe) as a certified aircraft. So IMO it's not that a Rotorway in less safe than a certified helicopter, it a function of the quality of the build. I have flown Hughes 300's, Hueys, HH-53's, and Blackhawks. My Rotorway design-wise is just as safe as anything I have flown. You just have to make sure it was built correctly, you put the required time into maintaining it, and you fly it correctly.

[Justin Travis]

Originally Posted by Tim Morris

However, someone who builds it right and puts the time into building and maintaining it correctly will have an aircraft that is just as safe (if not more safe) as a certified aircraft. So IMO it's not that a Rotorway in less safe than a certified helicopter, it a function of the quality of the build.

This is so not true and will get people killed. I dont care if you put a team of engineers and every rotorway expert together to build a ship. It will never even come close to the safety and reliability of ANY certified helicopter.

Bryan, guys like Homer and Orv will tell you the honest truth of what a rotorway is and is not. Some other 'builders helpers' dont do this.

A rotorway is the best kit helo in my opinion, but it still should be treated MUCH differently than a certified ship. Had this discussion way too many times. The guys who think this are either lying (because perhaps they have something to gain from telling you this), or they just dont know any better and are dangerous for that reason.

For ref, Com CFI helo. Built a Jet Exec (which from my perspective now is even more unreliable than the stock RW) although far more capable if something does not break . Was part of the RW community for a bunch of years and had many friends with stock ships.

Have a safe 2022. Be careful. Pick the right ship for the mission.

[Tim Morris]

Originally Posted by Justin Travis

This is so not true and will get people killed.

IMO you are wrong. My comments will not get anybody killed. Notice I did say the Rotorway had to be maintained and flown right. I didnt say anything about reliability. And since you feel it necessary to throw credentials around: Just for reference I am a CFII Helicopter, CFII Airplane, Commercial helicopter airplane and glider.


I do agree with your statement to pick the right ship for the mission. But, I stand by my statement that a well built and maintained Rotorway is just as safe as anything I have flown - when flown correctly. Otherwise, I would not fly it.

[Justin Travis]

Originally Posted by Tim Morris

Notice I did say the Rotorway had to be maintained and flown right. I didnt say anything about reliability.


But, I stand by my statement that a well built and maintained Rotorway is just as safe as anything I have flown - when flown correctly.

Unfortunately you are wrong. You could not be any more wrong either. For a guy who has been around aviation as long as you have, you obviously have not been around the rotorway long enough.

It is the best kit helicopter you can buy, but in NO WAY is it as reliable and safe as a certified if built to even the highest conditions.

You can start from the limited cyclic. How many certified ships you see with a weight you move around from solo to dual. I have seen a few roll overs as a result of this limited cyclic. Land, and winds shift. Go to lift off and guess what, you dont have enough cyclic to keep ship from rolling.

Then you can talk tail rotor authority.

Then you can talk power plant reliability. How many certified engines need rebuilt at 400-500 hours?

Then crazy things like the upper engine mount (which you cant see or inspect on preflight) which failed on a friend of mine resulting in belts going slack and luckily he was able to auto.

Looks like you just joined recently. Talk to some guys who have been in this community for 20 years or more. Ask Orv or Homer how many REAL autos they have had to do in a RW.

I know many 20,000 hour pilots who have only flown certified ships. I only know of a few incidents of those pilots having to perform an actual emergency landing.

I would be very careful if you convince yourself that your ship is as safe as a certified because you built it well. Hate to see those guys doing confined work in RW or things that are very close to the flight envelope that they dont even realize.

Be safe. Enjoy. Just dont kid yourself.

[David Fuller]

I would like to hear from some of the high time people on this subject.

[David Fuller]

I have been doing the Rotorway thing for about 44 years starting in 1978 with a Scorpion 133. My conclusion is that there is a lot more to safety than just the nuts and bolts. That is why certified helicopters can and do fall out of the sky and some Rotorway pilots live a long life to tell of the wonderful flying they have experienced.

[homer bell]

Just got done writing a long post and the machine said it couldn’t print it for some reason I’ll try and remember what I wrote and do it again using the voice app which I never use last year when I got ready to load my ship on the trailer I noticed a faint smell of rubber burning and a noise that sounded a little different turned out the bracket that holds the belt tension on the water pump and alternator had broken and the alternator was rubbing against the main drive belts. How do I continued had I continued I will could’ve had some serious issues and it’s not for an incline sang how do I continued with this condition I could’ve had serious problems imagine how I had been in the 50 miles in the outback or the wilderness of Alaska and not being able to sit down and look at my problem. This would not have been good. Over the years I have dropped two exhaust valves in different engines both engines had no problems that’s known problems so it was really no great surprise when these happened. These machines are much safer than they were 20 years ago but we must realize that we do not have a certified aircraft engine or little engine is under good bit more stress than a certified helicopter engine. While the engine is much better than it used to be it’s still does not live up to white a certified engine is. Our ship is very safe for a new student or pilot it doesn’t have any unusual flight characteristics that would kill you if you made a bad mistake. For this reason it is a great starter helicopter for someone that tonight jump right into a certified helicopter the expense is much less and makes it available to the common man. But failure to realize that the machine has more risk could be fatal. We must operate these machines in a much more conservative manner to make sure that we are safe. Bill or‘s that’s ORTH I believe it was trying to tell us that we should fly our machines like they were made of glass that was one of his mini statements and he was probably right or machines are probably more fragile than certified machines as much as we would like them to be it just isn’t that way.

[homer bell]

I’m not going to go back and fix all the errors and the stupid machine did but you get the idea

[Justin Travis]

Homer. Hope you are well. Was talking about you last night. We watched a Jeff Dunham special w/ my inlaws and I told the story how he came to the fly-in and the old VHS tape you had of him performing. Fun memories.

Anyway....I am a nobody in this community but anyone who even thinks about owning a RW should know who you are. I have always appreciated the guy you are and the path that you plotted for all of us that followed.

Thank you for sharing your opinion. Bill was a cool guy for sure. I love that he came on here and shared info (as best he could). I got to spend a day with him when I ferried a 22 back from Vegas many moons ago. Plus the time at the fly-in, he was really a guy to be missed.

All good here. Wishing everyone a safe and happy new year. Feet have been on the ground for a while here. Racing cars these days with my 14 year old son. Always pictured I would be teaching him to fly but his passion for cars has rubbed off on me. Life is good!

[homer bell]

Hang in there Buddy, glad to hear from you. Many on here don’t know your history and can’t appreciate the knowledge. We’ll keep trying to keep them reasonable safe and still enjoy the thrill of flying .
My twin grandsons are 15 now and I want them to fly, but I hope they can move up someday to certified machine for any career moves . They fly the RW very well now, but always worry that something could happen if they started flying a lot.

[homer bell]

The two valves I dropped were in engines that had some issues. So it wasn’t a Big Surprise when they failed. Certified engines drop valves too, but it can many times be traced back to way they were operated. We should never shut our engines down without a proper cool down.

[David Fuller]

Homer thanks for all you have done for the Rotorway community. The work you have put into it has been invaluable. These machines do have to be flown conservatively. And they have to be well maintained and cared for. I knew a fellow that kept his Exec stored outside with a John Stump cover on it. It was outside in all kinds of weather and thunderstorms and wind with only a string holding the blade to the tail boom. He wanted me to go flying with him. I told him it was not going to happen. He died when his chopper came apart at 300 ft and fell to the ground. Safety has to be on our minds at all times if it is a homebuilt or certified machine. I also remember a fellow near here that was killed when he was hot dogging it in a Hughes 500 and ran it into the ground. Helicopters are very thrilling to fly but they can hurt you.